Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
Moderatori: Super Zeta, AlexSmith, Pim, Moderatore1
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super_super
- Storico dell'impulso
- Messaggi: 5841
- Iscritto il: 27/12/2007, 12:08
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
bello il popolo cinese
per me c'è da cagarsi in mano a pensare che questi diventeranno i padroni del mondo
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
Guarda - banalmente -, eviterei di generalizzare. Bestie le persone che non l'hanno accorsa.
La stessa indignazione che si legge sulle board italiane si possono leggere anche sui forum cinesi, Chinasmack colleziona e traduce i thread e i post che più fanno tendenza in Cina. Guarda un po' qua e leggi i commenti: http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/2 ... nders.html
Btw, da quello che so negli ultimi tempi s'è creato il terrore di soccorrere i bisognosi sulla scorta di un episodio senza precedenti noto come 'Nanjing judge', nel quale un soccorritore è stato denunciato dalla vittima.
La stessa indignazione che si legge sulle board italiane si possono leggere anche sui forum cinesi, Chinasmack colleziona e traduce i thread e i post che più fanno tendenza in Cina. Guarda un po' qua e leggi i commenti: http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/2 ... nders.html
Btw, da quello che so negli ultimi tempi s'è creato il terrore di soccorrere i bisognosi sulla scorta di un episodio senza precedenti noto come 'Nanjing judge', nel quale un soccorritore è stato denunciato dalla vittima.
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Alex Teflon
- Veterano dell'impulso
- Messaggi: 2656
- Iscritto il: 08/06/2010, 19:07
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
Scusate. Ma... E' finto, vero? Ditemi che e' un film, vi prego.
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
non e' finto.
ma qui c'e un articolo scritto benissimo che spiega il tutto...non e' cosi assurdo..lo so e' una cosa abbastanza estrema, ma e' contestualizzata con la loro realta'
per colpa di sentenze di giudici coglioni, truffe, ecc ecc
qui il mio commento
a cosa ha avuto molto risalto su un gjornale genovese (il secolo)
Nella sua gravita', va contestualizzata..i cinesi sono terrorizzati dalla sentenza del 2006 che ha condannato un giovane che aveva aiutato una persona a rialzarsi da terra, a pagarle il risarcimento. (su chinasmack si trova agevolmente il riferimento..ora non ho la vpn e non posso mettervi il link).
le truffe sono ALL'ORDINE DEL GIORNO..ho visto gente nemmeno sfiorata contorcersi a terra e allo stesso modo gente con evidenti traumi presa strattoni e sbattuta dai guidatori che pensavano fosse una sceneggiata.
Ripeto, NON giustifico, ma comprendo lo stato d'animo dei cinesi di fronte ad alcuni eventi....
qui un pezzoi di bloomberg riferitoad eventi precedenti
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-0 ... inter.html
On the morning of Sept. 4, in the riverside boomtown of Wuhan, Mr. Li, an 88-year-old man, fell in the street and injured his nose. People passed him by, but no one raised a hand to help as he lay on the ground, suffocating on his own blood.
This week, China’s netizens have expressed an outpouring of sympathy -- for the bystanders. This is nothing new here. In recent years, there have been several high-profile cases of elderly men and women who have collapsed or suffered accidents in public spaces who then sue the good Samaritans who have tried to help them. These cases have created a genuine and widespread fear that helping a person in need will lead to personal financial loss.
In the wake of the Wuhan incident, People’s Daily, the official newspaper of the ruling Communist Party, ran an online poll that asked if people would help a collapsed elderly person on the street. More than 80 percent of respondents said that they, too, wouldn't help for fear of extortion. A poll on Sina Weibo, China’s leading microblog, showed a similar result: 43 percent said they wouldn’t help, 38 percent said they weren’t sure what they would do, and only 20 percent said they would “definitely” help.
The Chinese have long prided themselves on their traditional, Confucian reverence for the elderly. And these incidents have generated an exceptional outpouring of public concern over the decline of social ethics and morality in Chinese society.
This phenomenon essentially began Nov. 20, 2006, when Xu Shuolan, a 65-year-old woman, fell and broke her hip while attempting to board a bus in Nanjing. Peng Yu, a 26-year-old, was the first to help her. He gave her 200 reminbi and escorted her to the hospital, staying with her until her family arrived. In thanks, Xu sued Peng for 136,419 reminbi, or $18,000, claiming that he was the one who knocked her down.
In one of the best-known, most important Chinese judicial rulings of the last decade, a court decided that Peng owed Xu 45,000 reminbi, or $6,076. The court didn't have any evidence that Peng committed the crime of which he was accused by Xu. But the court, controversially, used the “daily life experience to analyze things” standard and claimed that the aid Peng gave to Xu was sufficient evidence of guilt. It wasn't, as many outraged Chinese at the time felt, a simple act of decency.
The Peng Yu case has been a precedent for lawsuits filed by seniors against everyday citizens. This includes a notorious case where a court awarded an old woman compensation for collapsing out of fear that she might be hit by a car –- a vehicle that was, both parties agreed, 4 to 5 meters away at the time of her collapse. According to a columnist at China Daily, a similar incident in Jiangsu Province recently caused a spike in sales of cameras fitted for cars at a Beijing electronics market.
The most solid proof of the corrosive effect these cases have had on China’s reverence for its elderly, however, emerged in 2009 when a 75-year-old Nanjing man fell at a bus stop and reportedly yelled out to the bystanders: “I fell on my own, you all do not need to worry, it had nothing to do with you all.” Then, and only then, did anyone offer to help him.
Falls are a leading cause of injury and death among China’s elderly. This fact was surely behind the Chinese Ministry of Health’s decision this week to issue the 41-page document, “Technical Guidelines for Preventing and Treating Falls by the Elderly.” According to Chinese state media reports, the document had been in the works for a few years; it was also released with guides detailing technical protocols for helping drowning victims and children involved in automobile crashes.
But the timing of the dcoument's release, just days after Mr. Li suffocated in the street, was terrible. The vast majority of Chinese netizens and editorialists interpreted it as a tone-deaf, technocratic response to what many perceive as three decades of decay in traditional Chinese values that began when the county embraced capitalism.
In an editorial on Caixun.com, China’s leading financial news portal, Chi Jingrui wrote:
It is generally believed by the public that if we go back thirty years, it’s no more difficult to help a senior citizen when he falls down than to offer a seat on the bus. But then what has made us lose our "loving heart” and social morality over the last thirty years?
Usually the answer is money. “In China, helping a fallen senior is a risky investment and its overall rate of return is usually negative,” tweeted Time in Words, a user of the Sina Weibo microblog.
By early afternoon on Sept. 7, “Ministry of Health” had become the second-most popular trending topic among the 200 million users of Sina Weibo (this weekend’s Mid-Autumn Festival was no. 1). The online discussion often was contemptuous, especially about the length of the state guidelines for helping the elderly and their inapplicability to real-life circumstances.
Shui Yinhe, a freelance journalist, tweeted on Sina Weibo:
What a guideline. If the senior citizen falls, he should be accompanied by their family members to the hospital. But if we can't get in touch with them, what can we do? Let them wait to die?
Where others saw the Ministry of Health's incompetence, some saw humor. The topic of the guidelines became a platform for the spontaneous gallows humor that is characteristic of China’s microblogging masses.
A Sina Weibo user who goes by “Textbook” took the popular approach of offering some of his own guidelines:
1. Call 120 [the Chinese emergency number]. 2. Look around to see if there’s a watchdog or wait for more people to come, and then help the elderly person. 3. Take photos using your cell phone in case tragedy happens … 4. If you are in areas outside the mainland, you don't have to do any of this and you can act normally.
But the award for the most cutting set of additional guidelines for helping the elderly goes to the editorial writers for the Qiangjiang Evening News, a Hangzhou-based newspaper. They proposal includes:
3. Equipment such as still cameras and video cameras are all indispensable to saving people … 4. Call 110 or 120. Remember not to leave your name and use a phone booth ... After finishing the call, return to the site (Note: Just watch, never make any conspicuous speech or action).
Despite all the humor, the unsettling -- even tragic -- subtext to the discussion is this: There’s been such deterioration in the Chinese social contract that the elderly can no longer count on their fellow citizens for help.
Jiang Changjian, an associate professor in the School of International Relations and Public Affairs at Shanghai’s Fudan University, bluntly summarized the depth of the problem on Sina Weibo: “...if there’s no willingness to offer help to a fallen senior citizen, whatever technical awareness and ability we have is rendered useless.”
(Adam Minter is the Shanghai correspondent for the World View blog. The opinions expressed are his own.)
Il pezzo di AGICHINA e' scritto molto bene. peccato che tutte le testate nazionali italiane abbiano trattato la questione con ben piu superficialita'...
e un pezzo di agichina OTTIMO portale italiano che parla di cina
http://www.agichina24.it/focus/notizie/ ... uo-del-web
Giustizia sociale
BIMBA INVESTITA TRA L’INDIFFERENZA,
LA MORBOSITA’ DEL WEB
BIMBA INVESTITA TRA L’INDIFFERENZA, <br />LA MORBOSITA’ DEL WEB
Pechino, 21 ott. - Wang Yue non ce l’ha fatta: la bambina di due anni che una settimana fa era stata investita da due camioncini pirata senza che nessuno dei passanti le prestasse soccorso è morta nelle prime ore della mattina di venerdì in un ospedale di Foshan, provincia del Guangdong, nel sud della Cina.
Pechino, 19 ott. - Una nuova storia di ordinaria indifferenza è andata in scena la scorsa settimana a Foshan, provincia del Guangdong. Il 13 ottobre Yueyue, una bambina di due anni, stava camminando a lato di una piccola strada interna, di fianco ad una pila di sacchi bianchi, quelli solitamente impiegati per trasportare riso o farina. Sono le 17:30.
Un camioncino bianco le si fa incontro: lei non lo vede – in quel momento, nel video delle telecamere a circuito chiuso trasmesso da un notiziario locale e ripreso su Youku, Yueyue è girata di schiena – e l'autista presumibilmente non si accorge della bambina davanti ai suoi fari, è troppo vicina e troppo bassa. Il veicolo investe Yueyue con la ruota anteriore e si ferma: l'autista si è reso conto di aver messo sotto qualcosa ma non scende a controllare, decide di accelerare, passando nuovamente sopra al corpo della piccola con la ruota posteriore.
La telecamera continua a riprendere, mostrando uno spettacolo raccapricciante. Yueyue è in terra sanguinante e, in 7 minuti, viene investita nuovamente da un altro camion, mentre ben 18 passanti la vedono e fanno finta di nulla. Sono in bicicletta, tengono per mano un figlio, pedalano su un triciclo, passeggiano a pochi centimetri dalla bambina, ma nessuno fa nulla. Solo Chen Xianmei, una signora di 58 anni che al tramonto per arrotondare il suo lavoro di assistente in un ferramenta gira per le strade a raccogliere l'immondizia, non appena vede Yueyue sanguinante si china, la prende in braccio e corre a chiamare aiuto.
Ad oggi, nonostante sia stata data per morta dal Shanghai Daily, una smentita indica che Yueyue sta ricevendo cure all'ospedale militare di Guangzhou ed è ancora in vita, se il coma cerebrale può essere chiamato tale. La vicenda è stata risucchiata immediatamente dal vortice della morbosità online: i commenti sulle piattaforme dei social network cinesi – Youku, Weibo, Tieba... - si contano ormai a decine di migliaia, alimentando un dibattito raramente costruttivo – ammesso che sia possibile costruire qualcosa da un episodio del genere – ma che senz'altro rappresenta un forte atto accusatorio da parte della stessa comunità cinese.
Oltre ad augurare ogni male possibile ai due autisti, uno dei quali aveva addirittura contattato la famiglia di Yueyue per concordare una compensazione economica in cambio di una latitanza serena ed indisturbata, è nato su Weibo un movimento virtuale spontaneo dietro l'hashtag “Fermiamo l'indifferenza”.
Un'indifferenza che sul web sembra imputabile a molteplici fattori: l'egoismo e la rincorsa al denaro della società cinese contemporanea, il timore di intervenire rischiando di essere in seguito incolpati di un reato non commesso – con conseguente compensazione da pagare alla famiglia della vittima, copione già messo in atto altre volte nel passato recente – la poca fiducia nel sistema legale cinese.
Altrove, sui media tradizionali, si discute invece della mancanza di una legge che tuteli chi aiuta estranei in difficoltà, la “Good Samaritan law”, mentre si sprecano gli editoriali di rammarico per una società cinese mostruosa ed irriconoscibile, “da brividi”, come la descrivono sul China Youth Daily.
I netizen se la prendono principalmente coi 18 passanti, accusati di “apatia”, in uno spirito di immedesimazione che trova nei polpastrelli contro i tasti di un laptop il proprio medium ideale.
La Cina sembra domandarsi come sia possibile, in casi come questo, spostare lo sguardo e non intervenire: è un esercizio che tutti noi abbiamo fatto almeno una volta - i barboni che muoiono al freddo nei nostri inverni, il video del morto ammazzato dalla camorra fuori dal tabaccaio, il cadavere ritrovato in spiaggia - e che aiuta a marcare una linea invisibile ma netta tra la nostra coscienza e una realtà emotivamente incomprensibile.
Sicuramente il menefreghismo sociale ha raggiunto in Cina proporzioni enormi, ed attribuirne la colpa ad un modello di società basato sulla corsa al denaro, o sulla preservazione del denaro, non rende giustizia ai cinesi di oggi.
Una risposta potrebbe essere la paura. Se la bambina fosse stata investita da un'auto della polizia? O dal figlio di un quadro locale del Partito? E se la famiglia chiede a me i danni? Vale la pena di rischiare?
Queste probabilmente sono alcune delle domande passate per la testa dei 18 passanti di Foshan: domande istintive figlie di un timore diffuso delle istituzioni, che il cittadino cinese conosce abbastanza bene – per esperienza diretta o per sentito dire – da non volerci aver nulla a che fare, e di una diffidenza verso il prossimo, identificato sempre più spesso come un personaggio minaccioso e in cerca di un'occasione per fregarti.
La lotta all'apatia dovrebbe partire proprio dal timore verso il prossimo, combattendo l'istinto di delegare al diciannovesimo passante il compito di soccorrere una bambina morente di due anni, un passante più coraggioso e, per molti cinesi, forse più scemo.
Il grande malato d'Asia stavolta non è la Cina, ma la società cinese: una società dove, per timore, si delega tutto. Anche le buone azioni.
di Matteo Miavaldi
© Riproduzione riservata
ma qui c'e un articolo scritto benissimo che spiega il tutto...non e' cosi assurdo..lo so e' una cosa abbastanza estrema, ma e' contestualizzata con la loro realta'
per colpa di sentenze di giudici coglioni, truffe, ecc ecc
qui il mio commento
a cosa ha avuto molto risalto su un gjornale genovese (il secolo)
Nella sua gravita', va contestualizzata..i cinesi sono terrorizzati dalla sentenza del 2006 che ha condannato un giovane che aveva aiutato una persona a rialzarsi da terra, a pagarle il risarcimento. (su chinasmack si trova agevolmente il riferimento..ora non ho la vpn e non posso mettervi il link).
le truffe sono ALL'ORDINE DEL GIORNO..ho visto gente nemmeno sfiorata contorcersi a terra e allo stesso modo gente con evidenti traumi presa strattoni e sbattuta dai guidatori che pensavano fosse una sceneggiata.
Ripeto, NON giustifico, ma comprendo lo stato d'animo dei cinesi di fronte ad alcuni eventi....
qui un pezzoi di bloomberg riferitoad eventi precedenti
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-0 ... inter.html
On the morning of Sept. 4, in the riverside boomtown of Wuhan, Mr. Li, an 88-year-old man, fell in the street and injured his nose. People passed him by, but no one raised a hand to help as he lay on the ground, suffocating on his own blood.
This week, China’s netizens have expressed an outpouring of sympathy -- for the bystanders. This is nothing new here. In recent years, there have been several high-profile cases of elderly men and women who have collapsed or suffered accidents in public spaces who then sue the good Samaritans who have tried to help them. These cases have created a genuine and widespread fear that helping a person in need will lead to personal financial loss.
In the wake of the Wuhan incident, People’s Daily, the official newspaper of the ruling Communist Party, ran an online poll that asked if people would help a collapsed elderly person on the street. More than 80 percent of respondents said that they, too, wouldn't help for fear of extortion. A poll on Sina Weibo, China’s leading microblog, showed a similar result: 43 percent said they wouldn’t help, 38 percent said they weren’t sure what they would do, and only 20 percent said they would “definitely” help.
The Chinese have long prided themselves on their traditional, Confucian reverence for the elderly. And these incidents have generated an exceptional outpouring of public concern over the decline of social ethics and morality in Chinese society.
This phenomenon essentially began Nov. 20, 2006, when Xu Shuolan, a 65-year-old woman, fell and broke her hip while attempting to board a bus in Nanjing. Peng Yu, a 26-year-old, was the first to help her. He gave her 200 reminbi and escorted her to the hospital, staying with her until her family arrived. In thanks, Xu sued Peng for 136,419 reminbi, or $18,000, claiming that he was the one who knocked her down.
In one of the best-known, most important Chinese judicial rulings of the last decade, a court decided that Peng owed Xu 45,000 reminbi, or $6,076. The court didn't have any evidence that Peng committed the crime of which he was accused by Xu. But the court, controversially, used the “daily life experience to analyze things” standard and claimed that the aid Peng gave to Xu was sufficient evidence of guilt. It wasn't, as many outraged Chinese at the time felt, a simple act of decency.
The Peng Yu case has been a precedent for lawsuits filed by seniors against everyday citizens. This includes a notorious case where a court awarded an old woman compensation for collapsing out of fear that she might be hit by a car –- a vehicle that was, both parties agreed, 4 to 5 meters away at the time of her collapse. According to a columnist at China Daily, a similar incident in Jiangsu Province recently caused a spike in sales of cameras fitted for cars at a Beijing electronics market.
The most solid proof of the corrosive effect these cases have had on China’s reverence for its elderly, however, emerged in 2009 when a 75-year-old Nanjing man fell at a bus stop and reportedly yelled out to the bystanders: “I fell on my own, you all do not need to worry, it had nothing to do with you all.” Then, and only then, did anyone offer to help him.
Falls are a leading cause of injury and death among China’s elderly. This fact was surely behind the Chinese Ministry of Health’s decision this week to issue the 41-page document, “Technical Guidelines for Preventing and Treating Falls by the Elderly.” According to Chinese state media reports, the document had been in the works for a few years; it was also released with guides detailing technical protocols for helping drowning victims and children involved in automobile crashes.
But the timing of the dcoument's release, just days after Mr. Li suffocated in the street, was terrible. The vast majority of Chinese netizens and editorialists interpreted it as a tone-deaf, technocratic response to what many perceive as three decades of decay in traditional Chinese values that began when the county embraced capitalism.
In an editorial on Caixun.com, China’s leading financial news portal, Chi Jingrui wrote:
It is generally believed by the public that if we go back thirty years, it’s no more difficult to help a senior citizen when he falls down than to offer a seat on the bus. But then what has made us lose our "loving heart” and social morality over the last thirty years?
Usually the answer is money. “In China, helping a fallen senior is a risky investment and its overall rate of return is usually negative,” tweeted Time in Words, a user of the Sina Weibo microblog.
By early afternoon on Sept. 7, “Ministry of Health” had become the second-most popular trending topic among the 200 million users of Sina Weibo (this weekend’s Mid-Autumn Festival was no. 1). The online discussion often was contemptuous, especially about the length of the state guidelines for helping the elderly and their inapplicability to real-life circumstances.
Shui Yinhe, a freelance journalist, tweeted on Sina Weibo:
What a guideline. If the senior citizen falls, he should be accompanied by their family members to the hospital. But if we can't get in touch with them, what can we do? Let them wait to die?
Where others saw the Ministry of Health's incompetence, some saw humor. The topic of the guidelines became a platform for the spontaneous gallows humor that is characteristic of China’s microblogging masses.
A Sina Weibo user who goes by “Textbook” took the popular approach of offering some of his own guidelines:
1. Call 120 [the Chinese emergency number]. 2. Look around to see if there’s a watchdog or wait for more people to come, and then help the elderly person. 3. Take photos using your cell phone in case tragedy happens … 4. If you are in areas outside the mainland, you don't have to do any of this and you can act normally.
But the award for the most cutting set of additional guidelines for helping the elderly goes to the editorial writers for the Qiangjiang Evening News, a Hangzhou-based newspaper. They proposal includes:
3. Equipment such as still cameras and video cameras are all indispensable to saving people … 4. Call 110 or 120. Remember not to leave your name and use a phone booth ... After finishing the call, return to the site (Note: Just watch, never make any conspicuous speech or action).
Despite all the humor, the unsettling -- even tragic -- subtext to the discussion is this: There’s been such deterioration in the Chinese social contract that the elderly can no longer count on their fellow citizens for help.
Jiang Changjian, an associate professor in the School of International Relations and Public Affairs at Shanghai’s Fudan University, bluntly summarized the depth of the problem on Sina Weibo: “...if there’s no willingness to offer help to a fallen senior citizen, whatever technical awareness and ability we have is rendered useless.”
(Adam Minter is the Shanghai correspondent for the World View blog. The opinions expressed are his own.)
Il pezzo di AGICHINA e' scritto molto bene. peccato che tutte le testate nazionali italiane abbiano trattato la questione con ben piu superficialita'...
e un pezzo di agichina OTTIMO portale italiano che parla di cina
http://www.agichina24.it/focus/notizie/ ... uo-del-web
Giustizia sociale
BIMBA INVESTITA TRA L’INDIFFERENZA,
LA MORBOSITA’ DEL WEB
BIMBA INVESTITA TRA L’INDIFFERENZA, <br />LA MORBOSITA’ DEL WEB
Pechino, 21 ott. - Wang Yue non ce l’ha fatta: la bambina di due anni che una settimana fa era stata investita da due camioncini pirata senza che nessuno dei passanti le prestasse soccorso è morta nelle prime ore della mattina di venerdì in un ospedale di Foshan, provincia del Guangdong, nel sud della Cina.
Pechino, 19 ott. - Una nuova storia di ordinaria indifferenza è andata in scena la scorsa settimana a Foshan, provincia del Guangdong. Il 13 ottobre Yueyue, una bambina di due anni, stava camminando a lato di una piccola strada interna, di fianco ad una pila di sacchi bianchi, quelli solitamente impiegati per trasportare riso o farina. Sono le 17:30.
Un camioncino bianco le si fa incontro: lei non lo vede – in quel momento, nel video delle telecamere a circuito chiuso trasmesso da un notiziario locale e ripreso su Youku, Yueyue è girata di schiena – e l'autista presumibilmente non si accorge della bambina davanti ai suoi fari, è troppo vicina e troppo bassa. Il veicolo investe Yueyue con la ruota anteriore e si ferma: l'autista si è reso conto di aver messo sotto qualcosa ma non scende a controllare, decide di accelerare, passando nuovamente sopra al corpo della piccola con la ruota posteriore.
La telecamera continua a riprendere, mostrando uno spettacolo raccapricciante. Yueyue è in terra sanguinante e, in 7 minuti, viene investita nuovamente da un altro camion, mentre ben 18 passanti la vedono e fanno finta di nulla. Sono in bicicletta, tengono per mano un figlio, pedalano su un triciclo, passeggiano a pochi centimetri dalla bambina, ma nessuno fa nulla. Solo Chen Xianmei, una signora di 58 anni che al tramonto per arrotondare il suo lavoro di assistente in un ferramenta gira per le strade a raccogliere l'immondizia, non appena vede Yueyue sanguinante si china, la prende in braccio e corre a chiamare aiuto.
Ad oggi, nonostante sia stata data per morta dal Shanghai Daily, una smentita indica che Yueyue sta ricevendo cure all'ospedale militare di Guangzhou ed è ancora in vita, se il coma cerebrale può essere chiamato tale. La vicenda è stata risucchiata immediatamente dal vortice della morbosità online: i commenti sulle piattaforme dei social network cinesi – Youku, Weibo, Tieba... - si contano ormai a decine di migliaia, alimentando un dibattito raramente costruttivo – ammesso che sia possibile costruire qualcosa da un episodio del genere – ma che senz'altro rappresenta un forte atto accusatorio da parte della stessa comunità cinese.
Oltre ad augurare ogni male possibile ai due autisti, uno dei quali aveva addirittura contattato la famiglia di Yueyue per concordare una compensazione economica in cambio di una latitanza serena ed indisturbata, è nato su Weibo un movimento virtuale spontaneo dietro l'hashtag “Fermiamo l'indifferenza”.
Un'indifferenza che sul web sembra imputabile a molteplici fattori: l'egoismo e la rincorsa al denaro della società cinese contemporanea, il timore di intervenire rischiando di essere in seguito incolpati di un reato non commesso – con conseguente compensazione da pagare alla famiglia della vittima, copione già messo in atto altre volte nel passato recente – la poca fiducia nel sistema legale cinese.
Altrove, sui media tradizionali, si discute invece della mancanza di una legge che tuteli chi aiuta estranei in difficoltà, la “Good Samaritan law”, mentre si sprecano gli editoriali di rammarico per una società cinese mostruosa ed irriconoscibile, “da brividi”, come la descrivono sul China Youth Daily.
I netizen se la prendono principalmente coi 18 passanti, accusati di “apatia”, in uno spirito di immedesimazione che trova nei polpastrelli contro i tasti di un laptop il proprio medium ideale.
La Cina sembra domandarsi come sia possibile, in casi come questo, spostare lo sguardo e non intervenire: è un esercizio che tutti noi abbiamo fatto almeno una volta - i barboni che muoiono al freddo nei nostri inverni, il video del morto ammazzato dalla camorra fuori dal tabaccaio, il cadavere ritrovato in spiaggia - e che aiuta a marcare una linea invisibile ma netta tra la nostra coscienza e una realtà emotivamente incomprensibile.
Sicuramente il menefreghismo sociale ha raggiunto in Cina proporzioni enormi, ed attribuirne la colpa ad un modello di società basato sulla corsa al denaro, o sulla preservazione del denaro, non rende giustizia ai cinesi di oggi.
Una risposta potrebbe essere la paura. Se la bambina fosse stata investita da un'auto della polizia? O dal figlio di un quadro locale del Partito? E se la famiglia chiede a me i danni? Vale la pena di rischiare?
Queste probabilmente sono alcune delle domande passate per la testa dei 18 passanti di Foshan: domande istintive figlie di un timore diffuso delle istituzioni, che il cittadino cinese conosce abbastanza bene – per esperienza diretta o per sentito dire – da non volerci aver nulla a che fare, e di una diffidenza verso il prossimo, identificato sempre più spesso come un personaggio minaccioso e in cerca di un'occasione per fregarti.
La lotta all'apatia dovrebbe partire proprio dal timore verso il prossimo, combattendo l'istinto di delegare al diciannovesimo passante il compito di soccorrere una bambina morente di due anni, un passante più coraggioso e, per molti cinesi, forse più scemo.
Il grande malato d'Asia stavolta non è la Cina, ma la società cinese: una società dove, per timore, si delega tutto. Anche le buone azioni.
di Matteo Miavaldi
© Riproduzione riservata
E' la vecchia guardia e i suoi interventi sul darkside sono imprescindibili, affronta il lato oscuro del sesso estremo con l'approccio dostojeschiano dell'uomo che soffre, mitizza e somatizza.UN DEMONE
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
-
Paperinik
- Storico dell'impulso
- Messaggi: 29220
- Iscritto il: 31/08/2002, 2:00
- Località: In giro per la mia mente
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
Tutti pazzi per Dante. In Cina
Il dono della città di Firenze, una copia della statua di Dante a Ningbo, è stata inaugurata giovedì davanti a cento milioni di spettatori, in diretta televisiva
http://corrierefiorentino.corriere.it/f ... 2824.shtml
Il dono della città di Firenze, una copia della statua di Dante a Ningbo, è stata inaugurata giovedì davanti a cento milioni di spettatori, in diretta televisiva
http://corrierefiorentino.corriere.it/f ... 2824.shtml
"E' impossibile", disse il cervello.
"Provaci!", sussurrò il cuore.
"Vai via, brutto!", urlò la ragazza.
06/06/2019 FIRENZE LIBERA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zp9AmCfWbI
"Provaci!", sussurrò il cuore.
"Vai via, brutto!", urlò la ragazza.
06/06/2019 FIRENZE LIBERA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zp9AmCfWbI
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
io dormivo..
..poi oramai vivo a 80 km e non ho piu nessuna informazione..
ma ho intuito qualcos..hanno anche fatto una piazza nuova (progettata da italiani).
Comunque Ningbo e firenze sono gemellati.
..poi oramai vivo a 80 km e non ho piu nessuna informazione..ma ho intuito qualcos..hanno anche fatto una piazza nuova (progettata da italiani).
Comunque Ningbo e firenze sono gemellati.
E' la vecchia guardia e i suoi interventi sul darkside sono imprescindibili, affronta il lato oscuro del sesso estremo con l'approccio dostojeschiano dell'uomo che soffre, mitizza e somatizza.UN DEMONE
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
Ma col nuovo lavoro non dovresti tornarci?nik978 ha scritto:io dormivo..
ma ho intuito qualcos..hanno anche fatto una piazza nuova (progettata da italiani).
Comunque Ningbo e firenze sono gemellati.
...e la ragazzina abbassò lo sguardo accorgendosi di non essere ancora una donna... (Heth)
"se ne parlava sul forum..." (frase ricorrente tra amici quando salta fuori un argomento qui trattato)
cristo sono in ritardo per il dominative fetish threesome del mercoledì!!!! dove ho messo la divisa da poliziotto sovietico? (Balkan Wolf)
"se ne parlava sul forum..." (frase ricorrente tra amici quando salta fuori un argomento qui trattato)
cristo sono in ritardo per il dominative fetish threesome del mercoledì!!!! dove ho messo la divisa da poliziotto sovietico? (Balkan Wolf)
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El Diablo
- Storico dell'impulso
- Messaggi: 26696
- Iscritto il: 26/10/2007, 1:16
- Località: Abruzzo,Texas,Inferno
- Contatta:
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
"Più le cose cambiano, più restano le stesse"
"I lesbo sono migliori se leggermente asimmetrici" Gargarozzo
"I lesbo sono migliori se leggermente asimmetrici" Gargarozzo
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
dovrei..ma (purtroppo) le cose si sono inspeigabilmente fermate...credo sia in caso classico e purtroppo so gia come andra' a finire..vediamo..Heth ha scritto:Ma col nuovo lavoro non dovresti tornarci?nik978 ha scritto:io dormivo..
ma ho intuito qualcos..hanno anche fatto una piazza nuova (progettata da italiani).
Comunque Ningbo e firenze sono gemellati.
Diablo in serata quando ho la vpn lo guardo.
ieri son stato al ktv. Niente da fare, hanno un modo tutto loro di divertirsi e un rapporto con la figa che in fondo gli invidio.
NON puoi non venire matto in un posto del genere. Ammiccanti ma senza malizia, ingenue, assolutamente gentili e senza asia di spennarti soldi..io ero veramente con le unghie a grattare i muri per stare buono.
Escono da sti cacchio di posti. magari ti guardan fan due chiacchere. le porti a mangiare (e a volte pagano loro).
Ieri e' arrivata una cosa alta 1.55 che credo avrebbe ammazzato tutte le nostre veline controveline minchiate che abbiamo in tv..palrava poco inglese. rideva sul fatto che ero io con un collega (passiamo entrambi l'190 e i 95 kg)..si ;metteva a fianco. ma tutto senza malizia o secondi fini. semplcimente per eli era NORMALE muoversi o atteggiarsi in un certo modo.
Roba che in italia scapparebbero tutti di testa, e loro niente..ridono scherzano el salutano e vanno via. MA COME CAZZO FANNO!!!!
fossi a ningbo la proterei a mangiare all'italiano..poi serata in giro e 99 su 100 ci starebbe.
ma non sono a ningbo e comunque serve un minimo budget per uscire e ora non ce l'ho.
azz..
. qua tutti guadagnano han lavori buoni .spendono spandono..devo capire perche; cazzo non riesco a trovare niente io (che ho un curriculum migliore in alcuni casi..)E' la vecchia guardia e i suoi interventi sul darkside sono imprescindibili, affronta il lato oscuro del sesso estremo con l'approccio dostojeschiano dell'uomo che soffre, mitizza e somatizza.UN DEMONE
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
torno sulla vicenda dell'investimento
un SIGNOR articolo..(ovviamente NON dall'italia).
COme vedete (e dovete leggerlo...) la cina e' uan realta' complessissima con una serie di regole non scritte che vanno comprese. Non si possono applicare alcuni modi di pensare "nostri" perche' non c'e' la capacita' di riceverli....qui speiga tutto MOLTO bene.
Shame on us Chinese! Last Thursday a two-year-old girl was run over twice, about 100 metres from her home in a hardware market district of Foshan, a prosperous city in southern China. As she lay on the ground, writhing in pain, before being hit by the second vehicle, 18 people, on their bicycles, in cars or on foot, passed by but chose to ignore her. Among them a young woman with her own child.
Finally, a 58-year-old female rubbish collector came to the girl's rescue, but it was too late. By the time she was brought to the hospital, the girl Yueyue, (whose name translates as Little Joy), was brain dead. She was declared dead early on Friday morning. She was a good girl, full of life, her mother said a few days ago in an interview. She said she had just brought Yueyue back from her kindergarten. She popped out to collect the dry clothes and returned to find Yueyue gone – probably trying to look for her elder brother.
It might have been a different story if one of the 18 people had lent Yueyue a hand. None even bothered to call for emergency services. Later, when interviewed by a journalist, one of the passersby, a middle-aged man riding a scooter, said with an uncomfortable smile on his face: "That wasn't my child. Why should I bother?"
Before giving himself up to the police, the driver of the second vehicle, a van, told the media why he had run away. "If she is dead, I may pay only about 20,000 yuan (£2,000). But if she is injured, it may cost me hundreds of thousands of yuan." What's wrong with these people? How could they be so cold-hearted? The horrific scene was caught by a surveillance camera and has been watched by millions of viewers since it was posted on Youku, China's equivalent of YouTube.
This is only the latest incident where tragedy has struck as a result of the callous inactivity of onlookers. Last month an 88-year-old man fell over face down at the entrance of a vegetable market near his home. For almost 90 minutes, he was ignored by people in the busy market. After his daughter found him and called an ambulance, the old man died "because of a respiratory tract clogged by a nosebleed". If anyone had turned him over, he might have survived.
Both cases, the death of Yueyue in particular, have provoked much public outrage and a nationwide discussion about morality in today's China. From Shanghai, someone with the cybername 60sunsetred wrote: "The Chinese people have arrived at their most morality-free moment!" There was plenty of condemnation of the cold-heartedness of the passersby. But, astonishingly, a large percentage of posters said they understood why the onlookers did not lend a helping hand. Some admitted they would do the same – for fear of getting into trouble and fear of facing another "Nanjing judge".
Let me explain the story of the muddle-headed Nanjing judge. In 2006, in the capital of Jiangsu province, a young man named Peng Yu helped an old woman who had fallen on the street and took her to a hospital and waited to see if the old woman was all right. Later, however, the woman and her family accused Peng of causing her fall. A judge decided in favour of the woman, based on the assumption that "Peng must be at fault. Otherwise why would he want to help?", saying that Peng acted against "common sense". The outcry from the public in support of Peng forced the court to adjust its verdict and resulted in Peng paying 10% of the costs instead of the total. Since that incident Peng has become a national cautionary tale: the Good Samaritan being framed by the beneficiary of their compassion.
It's true that in China you can get into trouble when you try to help. Weeks ago I spotted an accident on the fourth ring road in Beijing as I returned home one night. A man was hit by a "black car", an "illegal taxi", and his face was all bloody. Watched over by a crowd, the injured man behaved aggressively towards the driver. I got off my scooter. As I tried to pull the two men apart, I was struck myself. When I asked if anyone had reported this to the police, the driver said no. I couldn't believe that people just stared as if enjoying a free show, without doing anything. I called the helpline and the policemen turned up soon after.
The fundamental problem, in my view, lies in one word that describes a state of mind: shaoguanxianshi, meaning don't get involved if it's not your business. In our culture, there's a lack of willingness to show compassion to strangers. We are brought up to show kindness to people in our network of guanxi, family and friends and business associates, but not particularly to strangers, especially if such kindness may potentially damage your interest.
Fei Xiaotong, China's first sociologist, described Chinese people's moral and ethical characteristics in his book, From the Soil, in the middle of the last century. He pointed out that selfishness is the most serious shortcoming of the Chinese. "When we think of selfishness, we think of the proverb 'Each person should sweep the snow from his own doorsteps and should not fret about the frost on his neighbour's roof,'" wrote Fei. He offered the example of how the Chinese of that period threw rubbish out of their windows without the slightest public concern. Things are much the same today.
Under Mao, citizens were forced to behave themselves in both public and private spheres. Every March, people were obliged to go into the street to do good deeds: cleaning buses, fixing bicycles and offering haircuts. Now relaxed social control and commercialisation over the past three decades have led people to behave more selfishly again.
People are enjoying, and sometimes abusing, the vast personal freedoms that didn't exist before. To start with, it is now safe to be "naughty". Back in the early 1980s, when I worked at a rocket factory in Nanjing, one of my colleagues, a married man, was caught having an affair with an unmarried woman. He was given a three-year sentence in a labour camp and the girl was disgraced. In today's society, having extramarital affairs or keeping an ernai – second wife or concubine – is as common as "cow hair", as the Chinese would say. For a novel I am writing on prostitution, I have interviewed many prostitutes and ernai. Many see their profession as a way to gather wealth quickly, feeling few moral qualms.
China's moral crisis doesn't just manifest itself in personal life but also in business practice and many other areas. The high-profile "poisoned milk powder" case and the scandal of using "gutter oil" as cooking oil have shocked and disgusted people around the world. Last year an article, "Why have Chinese lost their sense of morality?", in which the author tried to find an explanation, was widely read. He reasoned that China has introduced the concept of a market economy from the west but failed to import the corresponding ethics, while the traditional moral principles of China no longer fit the market economy model.
There's a lot of sense in that. I believe that the lack of a value system is also deepening the moral crisis. Before Mao, the indifference towards others once so accurately described by Fei existed but was mitigated by a traditional moral and religious system. That system was then almost destroyed by the communists, especially during the 10 mad years of the Cultural Revolution from 1966 to 1976. Nowadays communism, the ideology that dominated Chinese people's lives like a religion, has also more or less collapsed. As a result, there's a spiritual vacuum that cannot be filled by the mere opportunity of money-making.
To drag China out of its moral crisis will be a long battle. The pressing question is how to make people act in cases of emergency and the solution is law. After the "Nanjing case", there have been discussions about introducing a law that imposes a "duty of rescue" as exists in many European countries. I am all for it, because that's probably the only way to propel action for a people who do not see a moral obligation in rescuing others.
The Yueyue incident revealed an ugly side of China. I hope the entire nation will take the opportunity to take a hard look at ourselves and ask ourselves what's wrong with society. There's at least hope in the action of the rubbish collector who rushed to Yueyue's side without hesitation.
China's economy is galloping like a horse without a rein and its position in the world is rising. We Chinese have every reason to feel proud about what we've achieved. Now we demand respect. But how can we possibly win respect and play the role of a world leader if this is a nation with 1.4 billion cold hearts?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... old-hearts
un SIGNOR articolo..(ovviamente NON dall'italia).
COme vedete (e dovete leggerlo...) la cina e' uan realta' complessissima con una serie di regole non scritte che vanno comprese. Non si possono applicare alcuni modi di pensare "nostri" perche' non c'e' la capacita' di riceverli....qui speiga tutto MOLTO bene.
Shame on us Chinese! Last Thursday a two-year-old girl was run over twice, about 100 metres from her home in a hardware market district of Foshan, a prosperous city in southern China. As she lay on the ground, writhing in pain, before being hit by the second vehicle, 18 people, on their bicycles, in cars or on foot, passed by but chose to ignore her. Among them a young woman with her own child.
Finally, a 58-year-old female rubbish collector came to the girl's rescue, but it was too late. By the time she was brought to the hospital, the girl Yueyue, (whose name translates as Little Joy), was brain dead. She was declared dead early on Friday morning. She was a good girl, full of life, her mother said a few days ago in an interview. She said she had just brought Yueyue back from her kindergarten. She popped out to collect the dry clothes and returned to find Yueyue gone – probably trying to look for her elder brother.
It might have been a different story if one of the 18 people had lent Yueyue a hand. None even bothered to call for emergency services. Later, when interviewed by a journalist, one of the passersby, a middle-aged man riding a scooter, said with an uncomfortable smile on his face: "That wasn't my child. Why should I bother?"
Before giving himself up to the police, the driver of the second vehicle, a van, told the media why he had run away. "If she is dead, I may pay only about 20,000 yuan (£2,000). But if she is injured, it may cost me hundreds of thousands of yuan." What's wrong with these people? How could they be so cold-hearted? The horrific scene was caught by a surveillance camera and has been watched by millions of viewers since it was posted on Youku, China's equivalent of YouTube.
This is only the latest incident where tragedy has struck as a result of the callous inactivity of onlookers. Last month an 88-year-old man fell over face down at the entrance of a vegetable market near his home. For almost 90 minutes, he was ignored by people in the busy market. After his daughter found him and called an ambulance, the old man died "because of a respiratory tract clogged by a nosebleed". If anyone had turned him over, he might have survived.
Both cases, the death of Yueyue in particular, have provoked much public outrage and a nationwide discussion about morality in today's China. From Shanghai, someone with the cybername 60sunsetred wrote: "The Chinese people have arrived at their most morality-free moment!" There was plenty of condemnation of the cold-heartedness of the passersby. But, astonishingly, a large percentage of posters said they understood why the onlookers did not lend a helping hand. Some admitted they would do the same – for fear of getting into trouble and fear of facing another "Nanjing judge".
Let me explain the story of the muddle-headed Nanjing judge. In 2006, in the capital of Jiangsu province, a young man named Peng Yu helped an old woman who had fallen on the street and took her to a hospital and waited to see if the old woman was all right. Later, however, the woman and her family accused Peng of causing her fall. A judge decided in favour of the woman, based on the assumption that "Peng must be at fault. Otherwise why would he want to help?", saying that Peng acted against "common sense". The outcry from the public in support of Peng forced the court to adjust its verdict and resulted in Peng paying 10% of the costs instead of the total. Since that incident Peng has become a national cautionary tale: the Good Samaritan being framed by the beneficiary of their compassion.
It's true that in China you can get into trouble when you try to help. Weeks ago I spotted an accident on the fourth ring road in Beijing as I returned home one night. A man was hit by a "black car", an "illegal taxi", and his face was all bloody. Watched over by a crowd, the injured man behaved aggressively towards the driver. I got off my scooter. As I tried to pull the two men apart, I was struck myself. When I asked if anyone had reported this to the police, the driver said no. I couldn't believe that people just stared as if enjoying a free show, without doing anything. I called the helpline and the policemen turned up soon after.
The fundamental problem, in my view, lies in one word that describes a state of mind: shaoguanxianshi, meaning don't get involved if it's not your business. In our culture, there's a lack of willingness to show compassion to strangers. We are brought up to show kindness to people in our network of guanxi, family and friends and business associates, but not particularly to strangers, especially if such kindness may potentially damage your interest.
Fei Xiaotong, China's first sociologist, described Chinese people's moral and ethical characteristics in his book, From the Soil, in the middle of the last century. He pointed out that selfishness is the most serious shortcoming of the Chinese. "When we think of selfishness, we think of the proverb 'Each person should sweep the snow from his own doorsteps and should not fret about the frost on his neighbour's roof,'" wrote Fei. He offered the example of how the Chinese of that period threw rubbish out of their windows without the slightest public concern. Things are much the same today.
Under Mao, citizens were forced to behave themselves in both public and private spheres. Every March, people were obliged to go into the street to do good deeds: cleaning buses, fixing bicycles and offering haircuts. Now relaxed social control and commercialisation over the past three decades have led people to behave more selfishly again.
People are enjoying, and sometimes abusing, the vast personal freedoms that didn't exist before. To start with, it is now safe to be "naughty". Back in the early 1980s, when I worked at a rocket factory in Nanjing, one of my colleagues, a married man, was caught having an affair with an unmarried woman. He was given a three-year sentence in a labour camp and the girl was disgraced. In today's society, having extramarital affairs or keeping an ernai – second wife or concubine – is as common as "cow hair", as the Chinese would say. For a novel I am writing on prostitution, I have interviewed many prostitutes and ernai. Many see their profession as a way to gather wealth quickly, feeling few moral qualms.
China's moral crisis doesn't just manifest itself in personal life but also in business practice and many other areas. The high-profile "poisoned milk powder" case and the scandal of using "gutter oil" as cooking oil have shocked and disgusted people around the world. Last year an article, "Why have Chinese lost their sense of morality?", in which the author tried to find an explanation, was widely read. He reasoned that China has introduced the concept of a market economy from the west but failed to import the corresponding ethics, while the traditional moral principles of China no longer fit the market economy model.
There's a lot of sense in that. I believe that the lack of a value system is also deepening the moral crisis. Before Mao, the indifference towards others once so accurately described by Fei existed but was mitigated by a traditional moral and religious system. That system was then almost destroyed by the communists, especially during the 10 mad years of the Cultural Revolution from 1966 to 1976. Nowadays communism, the ideology that dominated Chinese people's lives like a religion, has also more or less collapsed. As a result, there's a spiritual vacuum that cannot be filled by the mere opportunity of money-making.
To drag China out of its moral crisis will be a long battle. The pressing question is how to make people act in cases of emergency and the solution is law. After the "Nanjing case", there have been discussions about introducing a law that imposes a "duty of rescue" as exists in many European countries. I am all for it, because that's probably the only way to propel action for a people who do not see a moral obligation in rescuing others.
The Yueyue incident revealed an ugly side of China. I hope the entire nation will take the opportunity to take a hard look at ourselves and ask ourselves what's wrong with society. There's at least hope in the action of the rubbish collector who rushed to Yueyue's side without hesitation.
China's economy is galloping like a horse without a rein and its position in the world is rising. We Chinese have every reason to feel proud about what we've achieved. Now we demand respect. But how can we possibly win respect and play the role of a world leader if this is a nation with 1.4 billion cold hearts?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... old-hearts
E' la vecchia guardia e i suoi interventi sul darkside sono imprescindibili, affronta il lato oscuro del sesso estremo con l'approccio dostojeschiano dell'uomo che soffre, mitizza e somatizza.UN DEMONE
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
scusa nik mi sono persa degli intreventi: non avevi trovato un nuovo e miglior lavoro ?
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
avrei trovato.
sto aspettando la proposta di contratto che era sicura(ci eravamo accordati via telefono e l'avrei dovuta ricevere)...poi e' successo 'qualcosa" che ha stoppato tutto (non so cosa...."sono sorte delle questioni....")
sto aspettando la proposta di contratto che era sicura(ci eravamo accordati via telefono e l'avrei dovuta ricevere)...poi e' successo 'qualcosa" che ha stoppato tutto (non so cosa...."sono sorte delle questioni....")
E' la vecchia guardia e i suoi interventi sul darkside sono imprescindibili, affronta il lato oscuro del sesso estremo con l'approccio dostojeschiano dell'uomo che soffre, mitizza e somatizza.UN DEMONE
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
Ciao Nick , sabato in fiera ho fatto una mini- trattativa con un imprenditore di ningbo ...fantastico ! ....se ti sono fischiate le orecchie....ehehe
sono certo che hai un buon futuro laggiu'!
ora corro via ma ti descrivo l'episosio ASAP .
aloa
sono certo che hai un buon futuro laggiu'!
ora corro via ma ti descrivo l'episosio ASAP .
aloa
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
io so in fiera a shanghai dall'1 al 5 nov.
Almeno mi deprimo meno...........
grazie per il supporto morale.
Le balle che mi girano fan troppo rumore e non sento eventuali fischi..
Almeno mi deprimo meno...........
grazie per il supporto morale.
Le balle che mi girano fan troppo rumore e non sento eventuali fischi..
E' la vecchia guardia e i suoi interventi sul darkside sono imprescindibili, affronta il lato oscuro del sesso estremo con l'approccio dostojeschiano dell'uomo che soffre, mitizza e somatizza.UN DEMONE
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Re: Ciao grande Nick, buon viaggio
non ne ho idea..ammetto che il cibo cinese per me e' un'incognita..ne mangio un sacco, ma sempre la stessa roba.El Diablo ha scritto:Nik, che cos'è questa roba?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=753_1319304398
Che cibo è?
e spesso butto giu senza pensare..oggi ho mangiato il sanguinaccio e ho scoperto che da 4 anni lo mangio ogni tnto in mensa. per me erano fegatini.....
BLOG FOTOGRAFICO STRAORDINARIO!!!!
http://zaijietou.com/
potrei scrivere e pagine per ogni foto.ma non so se basta citare l'origine..
E' la vecchia guardia e i suoi interventi sul darkside sono imprescindibili, affronta il lato oscuro del sesso estremo con l'approccio dostojeschiano dell'uomo che soffre, mitizza e somatizza.UN DEMONE
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.
Now I lay me down to sleep,Pray the lord my soul to keep.And if I die before I wake pray the lord my soul to take.